"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas.
I'm frightened of the old ones."
- John Cage
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Query FailedJoel
Tuesday, September 29, 2009

Om du f�r vin p� kl�derna ska du anv�nda Vanish. Lita p� rosa. (Det fungerar faktiskt) Jag fick vin p� en skjorta nu i sommar och det f�rsvann, men jag fick k�ra tv� varv i tv�ttmaskinen med Vanish och vanligt tv�ttmedel blandat innan det var helt borta.
Scorpion
Tuesday, September 29, 2009

Norge ser ut som en elgitarr.
mark
Sunday, September 27, 2009

in my opinion all camera's should already been hdr capable!
it's weird it's not developing really, Fuji is really the only one.

from a display perspective i understand, as tft displays are for 88% only 6bit panels why have a wider range image file for the mass market?
Overlord
Thursday, September 24, 2009

Well technically all light sensors are analog, usually they have a photosensitive surface and a form of capacitor or capacitive material.
If you increase the capacitance over area you increase the theoretical dynamic range.
All of this is pretty linear (save for the extremes and possibly part of the upper range) though i can't tell you how the A/D converter does things, but i imagine its spaced reasonably linear or as humus suggested.

And yes my camera can output AdobeRGB as well as sRGB and of cause raw, though the former is more or less useless.
Humus
Wednesday, September 23, 2009

Well, the output in the form of a jpeg image is going to be in sRGB, like any normal image. I think some cameras can use another color profiles, but the difference wouldn't change much. I'm not sure what kind of response curve the average sensor has though. I would tend to think it's not linear, but more like a 2^(-k * light) curve or similar, like for film.
Sean Barrett
Wednesday, September 23, 2009

Do cameras actually output sRGB? I have no idea.
Humus
Wednesday, September 23, 2009

Overlord, actually, the eye can detect smaller differences than 8bit. For a colored gradient it may be hard to detect, even if it's possible, but for a grayscale 8bit gradient the banding is pretty obvious. If you tried the 10bit sample in the August 2009 DirectX SDK you see a very clear improvement going from 8bit to 10bit, assuming your monitor does not truncate the 10bit to 8bits. Apparently my HP LP3065 is able to use all 10bits and the difference was plain as a day and I had to screenshot it to verify that there really was only a difference of 1 between the bands in the 8bit image.

Sean Barrett,
a "stop" in photography is a factor of two. So 200,000:1 would be 17.6 stops. However, the power of 2.2 is really just an approximation of sRGB. The real formula uses a linear part at the bottom and an offsetted power of 2.4 curve for the rest. So for the lowest non-zero value you have (1/255)/12.92, which then gives the dynamic range as about 3300:1, or about 11.7 stops.
Sean Barrett
Tuesday, September 22, 2009

Overlord: gamma-corrected 8-bit at a 2.2 gamma has a range of values from 0^2.2 to 255^2.2. Ignoring the zero for the dynamic range calculation, the effective range is 1^2.2 to 255^2.2, which is a dynamic range of about 200,000:1.

I don't know a 'stop' is a measure of, but 200,000:1 is obviously between 17 and 18 powers of two, and it's well over the range identified by Debevec in his original HDR paper of the things he considered HDR -- in other words, existing 8-bit imagery met his definition of HDR.

The actual problem is that there just isn't enough precision in the darks; if you tone-mapped them brighter you'd see all sorts of crap.

Which is my point: I'm not saying 8-bit imagery is good enough. I'm saying if you're going to make these side-by-side comparisons, there's other interesting comparisons to make instead of just showing a blown-out 8-bit image.
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